The Unofficial Sugarloaf Chat

Yesterday afternoon 2 truck loads of the base terminal from Big Sky's swift current express arrived and was unloaded at the sand shed

Very quick look into it and I have to say seems good to me. About as close as you can get to a new high speed quad these days. I’m thinking it will look/feel quite new compared to super and whiffle. Great bang for buck which hopefully leaves more capital for other projects (ie new timberline lift).

Here's a look down the new liftline today from Back-Cut. It's interesting that this is a different line than the previous survey line/Pulaski.

Interesting. Wonder if this means it could get installed next summer and be ready for 22-23 ski season.

Oh good. Another 25 year old lift. This one as a hand-me-down.

WrathOfAramark wrote:Oh good. Another 25 year old lift. This one as a hand-me-down.

Wasn't a hand-me-down Gondola dumped in the woods a few years back.

essslsclsact wrote:

WrathOfAramark wrote:Oh good. Another 25 year old lift. This one as a hand-me-down.

Wasn't a hand-me-down Gondola dumped in the woods a few years back.

Yup
https://sugarloaftoday.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7833&p=61780&hilit=big+sky#p61777

A T-bar would fit nicely in that cut line.

Alpiner wrote:Here's a look down the new liftline today from Back-Cut. It's interesting that this is a different line than the previous survey line/Pulaski.

we're gonna need some insight from goldenboy on this, and maybe POTM. Paging both of them

What is Boyne’s logic in delivering the lift to Sugarloaf but not announcing it?

Shhh...maybe, a surprise X'mas gift

I thought terminals were going to be new just reused chairs and towers.

Liftblog had said at announcement of the 6 “ The existing Swift Current lift, built in 1996 alongside Gondola One, will be sent to Salt Lake for refurbishment and re-installation at another Boyne resort in 2021.”

Tree wrote:What is Boyne’s logic in delivering the lift to Sugarloaf but not announcing it?

I imagine in this business nothing is certain until the lift is actually being installed.

Glade Monkey wrote:A T-bar would fit nicely in that cut line.

(*spit-take*) That would be one long-ass T-bar.

To POTM's offer to buy one of the old Big Sky cars, at this point I say if they're still there they are up for grabs.

skiloaf wrote:Liftblog had said at announcement of the 6 “ The existing Swift Current lift, built in 1996 alongside Gondola One, will be sent to Salt Lake for refurbishment and re-installation at another Boyne resort in 2021.”

That was probably pre-Covid. I think it was one of the lifts that got delayed. A more recent article when they were flying new towers said, "The previous Swift Current detachable quad will be placed in storage for re-installation somewhere within the Boyne Resorts portfolio."
Apparently "storage" means in a Maine sand pit

BTW - here are pix of it so you can see that bits and pieces of what we maybe getting.... https://liftblog.com/swift-current-express-big-sky-resort-mt/
Specs from Liftblog
Doppelmayr
Operating: 1996-2021
Capacity 2400/hr
Vertical Rise 1645'
Length 8449'
HP 900
Speed 1000 fpm
Chairs 175
Towers 31
Drive Top
Ride Time 8.4

So a used lift is going to be the Loaf's new "Signature Lift". No bubble, no heated seats, not a 6 pack. Glad to see it at least has foot rests. I am sure the new paint job will make it look spectacular. I'm excited, really, I am. In large part because perhaps this means the next lift, presumably the Timberline replacement, will be something more than a hand-me-down.

bigelow wrote:we're gonna need some insight from goldenboy on this, and maybe POTM. Paging both of them

Oddly enough, I'm not against this new-old lift from Big Sky. I have been worn down by life's harsh realities. I am excited that progress seems to be occurring and there will be a new high-speed option. Now we just need several more of these to modernize some of the others. Out with the 70's and in with the 90's!

Ski It wrote:So a used lift is going to be the Loaf's new "Signature Lift". No bubble, no heated seats, not a 6 pack. Glad to see it at least has foot rests. I am sure the new paint job will make it look spectacular. I'm excited, really, I am. In large part because perhaps this means the next lift, presumably the Timberline replacement, will be something more than a hand-me-down.

I think you hit the nail on the head. I think they are not spending a lot on this one so they can afford a much higher-end signature summit lift. The summit lift needs to be a lot more durable due to weather conditions. Plus, the summit lift will be the one depicted on every future advertisement, not a simple base to mid-mountain HSQ. This Swift Current HSQ might be pretty quick too. It appears to have a 900 HP motor versus the 600 HP motor in the SQ. Will the new West Mountain Express be enough to entice buyers to buy real estate? I think it will.

I'm sure all of the wear components will be overhauled or replaced prior to install at SL. They may even update the terminal covers akin to what they did with the Ramcharger to Shedhorn flip. It should prove to be almost new when it goes back in.

Lol watch it end up at Sunday River they just didn’t have space to store. Don’t forget the fate of the gondola cabins. Agree with folks this is probably all this area needs though the ride is going to be longer than the quad and bubbles and heated seats would have been nice for cold days, ski school, and drawing people from the quad/whiffletree.

Ski It wrote:So a used lift is going to be the Loaf's new "Signature Lift".

No. No lift in this location could ever be the signature lift. I mean unless it was a two stage gondola that continued to the summit, but that would just be stupid. A signature lift needs to be accessible from the base.

Wait. West Mountain Foreside is NOT receiving a new Range Rover SVR Lift?? THE HORROR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I demand to speak with the manager!

EXILED wrote:Wait. West Mountain Foreside is NOT receiving a new Range Rover SVR Lift?? THE HORROR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I demand to speak with the manager!

What about the children??

the newly arrived lift will be converted to 100 snow guns... to be installed on ginpole and tohaul. snowmaking will increase by 1.2% we remain committed to improving the snowmaking system.

If Sugarloaf had been able to rely on Big Sky for infrastructure support the last 20 years it would be a different situation today - this relationship is extremely valuable in my opinion. Big Sky is like the tip of the spear in terms of best-practices - I bet Sugarloaf will continue to benefit from the trickle-down effect for years to come. However, the one thing that American Skiing Company did that Boyne has yet to do in a big way is give us the New-New. Let's see if that changes. We'll see what Boyne can do with this new base area - we can judge if the Big Sky experience has sharpened the spear.

goldenboy80 wrote:If Sugarloaf had been able to rely on Big Sky for infrastructure support the last 20 years it would be a different situation today - this relationship is extremely valuable in my opinion. Big Sky is like the tip of the spear in terms of best-practices - I bet Sugarloaf will continue to benefit from the trickle-down effect for years to come. However, the one thing that American Skiing Company did that Boyne has yet to do in a big way is give us the New-New. Let's see if that changes. We'll see what Boyne can do with this new base area - we can judge if the Big Sky experience has sharpened the spear.

When did Boyne acquire SL and SR from the REIT that had owned them? Much more recent than 20 years ago I think.

gondicar wrote:

goldenboy80 wrote:If Sugarloaf had been able to rely on Big Sky for infrastructure support the last 20 years it would be a different situation today - this relationship is extremely valuable in my opinion. Big Sky is like the tip of the spear in terms of best-practices - I bet Sugarloaf will continue to benefit from the trickle-down effect for years to come. However, the one thing that American Skiing Company did that Boyne has yet to do in a big way is give us the New-New. Let's see if that changes. We'll see what Boyne can do with this new base area - we can judge if the Big Sky experience has sharpened the spear.

When did Boyne acquire SL and SR from the REIT that had owned them? Much more recent than 20 years ago I think.

Boyne effectively took over back in 2007 when CNL bought SL & SR from ASC and Boyne took over management. More recently in 2018 Boyne purchased both from Och-Ziff who had bought them from CNL a few years prior to that.

Hey guys,

Something of note that hasn't been posted or talked about anywhere.
This is the original project that was waved around


and more recently, this is the updated one that quietly went up


hmmmmm, see the differences? me too.

Was the original conceptual design done pre-pandemic and the latest post-pandemic? That could be a major factor. It looks like the new 6 was deemed too costly and the tubing park cut out among other changes. I wonder how badly COVID hurt cash flow... might have lost a couple million in the short-run. In the long-run, the pandemic may be a financial benefit if inflation increases the value of the land more than it affects other costs incurred by Boyne. Of course, the real estate needs to be monetized in order for Boyne to see any of that benefit.

FWIW, I rode the Swift Current quad at Big Sky in visits in two straight years. My impression was that it was fast, quiet, reliable, and did I say fast? If it’s overhauled it will obviously have new components, but karma-wise at least it has a solid performance history. And the chairs were comfortable…