New Lift

[Mr. Vesper]

We need a 4 person T-Bar

[goldenboy80]

I disagree with the idea of any additional fixed grip quads installed at Sugarloaf, particularly in a beginner area where loading can be precarious for the uninitiated. If Sugarloaf wants beginners to progress faster and enjoy the experience it has to invest in them. Planning for guests to travel uphill at 500 ft/min as part of the resort's future is a recipe for failure. Fixed-grips are OK when lift tickets are $30 but if planning to charge visitors $100+ for a day of skiing it has to deliver a modern experience - especially given temperatures in Maine. These investments and experiences still have to be relevant in 30 years when people's attention spans will be even shorter. I know it's annoying to drive hours to the hill to find lift closures due to wind and ice. However, I'd rather ride uphill on a lift at twice the speed in 95% of conditions than ride uphill at half-speed all the time to safeguard against closures in 5% of conditions.

[goldenboy80]

I now agree the DR replacement should be a fixed grip quad with carpet load. Because that chair needs to be as ice and wind proof as possible.

How many times in a season does a lower-mountain HSQ like Whiffletree go down specifically due to wind/ice? Is it 1 weekend per year, 3 weekends per year, 5 weekends per year, 7 weekends per year? I'm curious to see the data.

[Glade Monkey]

I now agree the DR replacement should be a fixed grip quad with carpet load. Because that chair needs to be as ice and wind proof as possible.

How many times in a season does a lower-mountain HSQ like Whiffletree go down specifically due to wind/ice? Is it 1 weekend per year, 3 weekends per year, 5 weekends per year, 7 weekends per year? I'm curious to see the data.

There are only 2 lower HSQ
When there is icing Whiffletree (& Skyline) are most often the ones to go on hold.I’m guessing SL is more for the carpet load
They usually find a way to get & keep SuperQuad running, even if it starts late. When SQ is down for weather then rarely are any other main lifts running.

The #1 lift that goes on hold is not surprisingly Timberline. It is closed more often than open.
The #2 lift that goes on hold is King Pine. Both are fixed grip.
Double Runners go on hold quite often too.
I’ve been making notes in the Weather Log this season but that’s not “hard” data

[essslsclsact]

HSQs are prone to icing problems which take time to clear before running. Whiffletree and King Pine go on hold many times for wind as the top section of both is quite exposed. I don't know if wind fencing like that used on SQ and Skyline would help, but don't think this is a SL priority.
Both DR chairs had extensive safety work and electrical work done a few years back and operate quite effectively which is why they should not be priority for replacement. I don't think a carpet with fixed grip is a good idea for beginners and a carpet on DR would not gain that much in terms of ride time.

Years ago when Timberline was down for a while the snow cats were used to transport skiers from about top of Skyline (Spillway) near the Timberline trail to the top. This could be used to get skiers to the T-Bar when DR West did not run. Given the T-Bar going in for training between NG and Comp Hill there is no need for another T-Bar if this can be used on wind hold days, and it should be installed so this can happen.

[machski]

A DR replacement will come down to what SL and Boyne want to do there. If they want to just replace the East length to service beginer terrain, they might do a HSQ for loading convenience. At not quite 3100' line length, it is a bit short to need a detach but not unheard of, both Snowshed (K) and South Ridge (SR) have HSQ's for beginners about that line length. I don't see them replacing West up to the current base of Bateau with a HSQ option, they would need a midstation for beginner exit and as I said, that adds grip cycles each spin. It is likely they extend and replace Bateau to the base of an East HSQ replacement but they would have to permanently close both Tote x-cut and Gin Pole if they do that, leaving Peavy the only way over to Skyline from SQ. That works, even though it may not be optimal for the seasoned SL skier/riders.

[Alpiner]

It is likely they extend and replace Bateau to the base of an East HSQ replacement

I thin that's extremely unlikely or else it would have happened already, due to Gin Pole. Sugarloaf does not seem to want to attempt the legal gymnastics to get the Gin Pole crossing grandfathered, or maybe they already have and lost.

Another headache with extending Bateau down is the rigamarole they would have to go through to keep Narrow Gauge FIS homologated. Or maybe it would DQ Narrow Gauge altogether, idk.

but they would have to permanently close both Tote x-cut and Gin Pole if they do that, leaving Peavy the only way over to Skyline from SQ. That works, even though it may not be optimal for the seasoned SL skier/riders.

Closing Tote Road Crosscut at Spillway is easy, but Gin Pole cannot be lost under any circumstances. It is vital to the customer experience coming from SQ. Especially on days when SQ is running and Skyline is not. Gin Pole doubles the amount of skiing you can access from SQ, and allows you to reach King Pine from SQ. Being able to move around the resort is one of Sugarloaf's strongest attributes. This is a huge problem at other places like Sunday River where you have to take multiple lifts to move east-west.

[machski]

It is likely they extend and replace Bateau to the base of an East HSQ replacement

I thin that's extremely unlikely or else it would have happened already, due to Gin Pole. Sugarloaf does not seem to want to attempt the legal gymnastics to get the Gin Pole crossing grandfathered, or maybe they already have and lost.

Another headache with extending Bateau down is the rigamarole they would have to go through to keep Narrow Gauge FIS homologated. Or maybe it would DQ Narrow Gauge altogether, idk.

but they would have to permanently close both Tote x-cut and Gin Pole if they do that, leaving Peavy the only way over to Skyline from SQ. That works, even though it may not be optimal for the seasoned SL skier/riders.

Closing Tote Road Crosscut at Spillway is easy, but Gin Pole cannot be lost under any circumstances. It is vital to the customer experience coming from SQ. Especially on days when SQ is running and Skyline is not. Gin Pole doubles the amount of skiing you can access from SQ, and allows you to reach King Pine from SQ. Being able to move around the resort is one of Sugarloaf's strongest attributes. This is a huge problem at other places like Sunday River where you have to take multiple lifts to move east-west.

So if you close the crosscuts for lengthened Bateau, what's the issue really? You'd have to take Skyline or Bateau to access the Eastern trails instead of just SQ? You'd get more vert off those trails from either the T-Bar or Skyline, no? I would think THAT would be a better experience IMHO, but YMMV.

For now it's a moot point since upgrades don't seem to have the same urgency that Loon/SR's are getting.

[Alpiner]

So if you close the crosscuts for lengthened Bateau, what's the issue really? You'd have to take Skyline or Bateau to access the Eastern trails instead of just SQ? You'd get more vert off those trails from either the T-Bar or Skyline, no? I would think THAT would be a better experience IMHO, but YMMV.

There are plenty of times when SQ is running and Skyline is not. If Gin Pole is permanently closed that's obviously a big problem. Currently Bateau is only fired up during these times if there is a crowd. Permanently closing Gin Pole would force the mountain to have to use Bateau every time Skyline is on hold, and force people to take it, neither of which are good business. Many people don't like T-bars or are unable to ride Bateau. Riding one with a small child is brutal.

Like I said, Sugarloaf's ease of east-west travel is a huge plus. It's nice to be able to be riding SQ and say hmm, we should go hit Spillway/Sluice/Gondi/etc/KP. Freedom! Can't do that at many other mountains. Like SR's terrain is basically reduced by half if you want to avoid stupid flat traverses and transit lifts.

If Sugarloaf were permitted to extend Bateau by closing Gin Pole only when Bateau is running, I still don't think that's a good idea because again you're reducing the mountain's east-west flexibility and forcing the mountain to have to decide between Gin Pole and Bateau, and forcing the customers to take an extra lift ride if they want to ski east of Narrow Gauge from SQ.

[muleski]

I agree, 110%, Alpiner.

In my few decades of experience on the hill, Gin Pole might be the most valuable 300 yards of "terrain" on the mountain. It completely changes the West to East options as well as the middle of the mountain. One of my favorite routes when the light and surface is nice is to ski the top of Gauge, cut over to ski Spillway or Sluice via Gin Pole and then hop on Skyline. And for heading over to Lower Gondi, Wedge, etc. it's perfect...along wth heading all the way over to KP. For my money losing Gin Pole would be a real disaster. Big loss. And it is a significant advantage to the mountain. Our son was at Gould for his 8th grade year, 20 years ago, and we spend mot of the winter there with our daughter in the GSR weekend program. That is when I truly came to love "home" and very much shake my head and dislike the whole horizontal multi-peak SR "thing."

[SpillwayEast]

The t-bar isn't getting extended.

[Andrew B.]

The t-bar isn't getting extended.

Lol

[Alpiner]

shake my head and dislike the whole horizontal multi-peak SR "thing."

Totally agree. Barf. On that note, if you've never been to Park City/Canyons, don't bother.

The t-bar isn't getting extended.

Most likely you are correct. I just like this fun little game we play here.

[SpillwayEast]

shake my head and dislike the whole horizontal multi-peak SR "thing."

Totally agree. Barf. On that note, if you've never been to Park City/Canyons, don't bother.

The t-bar isn't getting extended.

Most likely you are correct. I just like this fun little game we play here.

Valid points! It is a great game we play here.

I agree about horizontal multi-peak skiing...........overall it sucks. I skied the canyons once and just dont get it......as for park city I did have a great powder day there once........lapping Jupiter Bowl with no lift line. The runout at the bottom is just plain dangerous on a crowded day. First time I ever skied Vail it felt like I was just getting somewhere all day and not really skiing. Once I was more familiar with the mountain it skied better.........I just hit Beaver Creek now....much better. As for the east I think the only mountain that skis like the loaf is Whiteface.......I had a great weekend there in early April a few years ago.

[machski]

I agree, 110%, Alpiner.

In my few decades of experience on the hill, Gin Pole might be the most valuable 300 yards of "terrain" on the mountain. It completely changes the West to East options as well as the middle of the mountain. One of my favorite routes when the light and surface is nice is to ski the top of Gauge, cut over to ski Spillway or Sluice via Gin Pole and then hop on Skyline. And for heading over to Lower Gondi, Wedge, etc. it's perfect...along wth heading all the way over to KP. For my money losing Gin Pole would be a real disaster. Big loss. And it is a significant advantage to the mountain. Our son was at Gould for his 8th grade year, 20 years ago, and we spend mot of the winter there with our daughter in the GSR weekend program. That is when I truly came to love "home" and very much shake my head and dislike the whole horizontal multi-peak SR "thing."

If MGMT agrees with you both, then the end is likely near for Bateau. When it dies, it will get ripped out without replacement if Gin Pole is that critical.

[WrathOfAramark]

I agree, 110%, Alpiner.

In my few decades of experience on the hill, Gin Pole might be the most valuable 300 yards of "terrain" on the mountain. It completely changes the West to East options as well as the middle of the mountain. One of my favorite routes when the light and surface is nice is to ski the top of Gauge, cut over to ski Spillway or Sluice via Gin Pole and then hop on Skyline. And for heading over to Lower Gondi, Wedge, etc. it's perfect...along wth heading all the way over to KP. For my money losing Gin Pole would be a real disaster. Big loss. And it is a significant advantage to the mountain. Our son was at Gould for his 8th grade year, 20 years ago, and we spend mot of the winter there with our daughter in the GSR weekend program. That is when I truly came to love "home" and very much shake my head and dislike the whole horizontal multi-peak SR "thing."

If MGMT agrees with you both, then the end is likely near for Bateau. When it dies, it will get ripped out without replacement if Gin Pole is that critical.

Gin pole already dips down as you get right to the t-bar line. Could the trails be re-contoured with a bridge for the T-bar and a tunnel for gin pole crossing underneath?

[Andrew B.]

I agree, 110%, Alpiner.

In my few decades of experience on the hill, Gin Pole might be the most valuable 300 yards of "terrain" on the mountain. It completely changes the West to East options as well as the middle of the mountain. One of my favorite routes when the light and surface is nice is to ski the top of Gauge, cut over to ski Spillway or Sluice via Gin Pole and then hop on Skyline. And for heading over to Lower Gondi, Wedge, etc. it's perfect...along wth heading all the way over to KP. For my money losing Gin Pole would be a real disaster. Big loss. And it is a significant advantage to the mountain. Our son was at Gould for his 8th grade year, 20 years ago, and we spend mot of the winter there with our daughter in the GSR weekend program. That is when I truly came to love "home" and very much shake my head and dislike the whole horizontal multi-peak SR "thing."

If MGMT agrees with you both, then the end is likely near for Bateau. When it dies, it will get ripped out without replacement if Gin Pole is that critical.

Gin pole already dips down as you get right to the t-bar line. Could the trails be re-contoured with a bridge for the T-bar and a tunnel for gin pole crossing underneath?

I can’t see why not?

[Glade Monkey]

If MGMT agrees with you both, then the end is likely near for Bateau. When it dies, it will get ripped out without replacement if Gin Pole is that critical.

Gin pole already dips down as you get right to the t-bar line. Could the trails be re-contoured with a bridge for the T-bar and a tunnel for gin pole crossing underneath?

I can’t see why not?

The bateau will never die!
Also, Killington built at least one tunnel a few years back to improve flow through a specific area, it was pretty big production & big enough for a cat to go through!

Contruction video https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=2134043683581529

[Alpiner]

Gin pole already dips down as you get right to the t-bar line. Could the trails be re-contoured with a bridge for the T-bar and a tunnel for gin pole crossing underneath?

Maybe. But Bateau is already too steep at that point. It would have to become crazy steep to rise over the current path of Gin Pole. Plus I don't think it can be disturbed/rerouted and retain grandfather status. Maybe it could work if Gin Pole could be excavated lower.

if Gin Pole is that critical

I can't understand how you do not consider it critical. How can you casually suggest cutting SQ off from HALF the terrain it currently accesses? Do you never turn left at the top?

[essslsclsact]

[/quote]Gin pole already dips down as you get right to the t-bar line. Could the trails be re-contoured with a bridge for the T-bar and a tunnel for gin pole crossing underneath?[/quote]
I can’t see why not?[/quote]
One big reason MONEY. Not enough benefit for most SL skiers and other priorities already seem to be stretching spending on future infrastucture improvements.

[goldenboy80]

Building bridge(s) to accommodate a longer T-Bar would be pretty cool. I imagine the bridge(s) would have to be strong enough (steel, concrete and timbers) to support a snowcat so expensive as essslsclsact said. Certainly not a crazy idea.

There is so much that needs to be done. Time for Karl to open a SL account and start trading oil futures contracts?

[machski]

Gin pole already dips down as you get right to the t-bar line. Could the trails be re-contoured with a bridge for the T-bar and a tunnel for gin pole crossing underneath?

Maybe. But Bateau is already too steep at that point. It would have to become crazy steep to rise over the current path of Gin Pole. Plus I don't think it can be disturbed/rerouted and retain grandfather status. Maybe it could work if Gin Pole could be excavated lower.

if Gin Pole is that critical

I can't understand how you do not consider it critical. How can you casually suggest cutting SQ off from HALF the terrain it currently accesses? Do you never turn left at the top?

Pretty much. I am no fan of the lift setup at SL, I hate the runout and avoid it as much as possible. So when on the Skyline served terrain, I stay on Skyline or go byond if KP is running. The only time I ski back to SQ is when I'm skiing the terrain on that side of the mountain. To each their own.

[WrathOfAramark]

Building bridge(s) to accommodate a longer T-Bar would be pretty cool. I imagine the bridge(s) would have to be strong enough (steel, concrete and timbers) to support a snowcat so expensive as essslsclsact said. Certainly not a crazy idea.

There is so much that needs to be done. Time for Karl to open a SL account and start trading oil futures contracts?

Should have been bitcoin mining when they ran the SQ on diesel last spring.

[Pow on the Mao]

paging shitski....

[essslsclsact]

I agree, 110%, Alpiner.

In my few decades of experience on the hill, Gin Pole might be the most valuable 300 yards of "terrain" on the mountain. It completely changes the West to East options as well as the middle of the mountain. One of my favorite routes when the light and surface is nice is to ski the top of Gauge, cut over to ski Spillway or Sluice via Gin Pole and then hop on Skyline. And for heading over to Lower Gondi, Wedge, etc. it's perfect...along wth heading all the way over to KP. For my money losing Gin Pole would be a real disaster. Big loss. And it is a significant advantage to the mountain. Our son was at Gould for his 8th grade year, 20 years ago, and we spend mot of the winter there with our daughter in the GSR weekend program. That is when I truly came to love "home" and very much shake my head and dislike the whole horizontal multi-peak SR "thing."

Agree Gin Pole is a critical West to East crosscut.

[Andrew B.]

“completely retrofitted and rebuilt by Doppelmayr this summer, and will feature a new drive, motor, electrical systems, and haul rope”

These are the important moving pieces and they will be new. The structure, towers and chairs have a useful life expectancy well beyond Swifty’s age and not much less than new.

[Alpiner]

“completely retrofitted and rebuilt by Doppelmayr this summer, and will feature a new drive, motor, electrical systems, and haul rope”

These are the important moving pieces and they will be new. The structure, towers and chairs have a useful life expectancy well beyond Swifty’s age and not much less than new.

Exactly. I believe this will prove to be a secondary lift like Bucksaw was, so a re-homed lift makes perfect sense.

2023 is rather disappointing after all this hype. Not sure how the c-word delayed permitting.

[skiloaf]

Link to press release https://www.sugarloaf.com/press-releases/summer-capital-2022?fbclid=IwAR3q3u-4YhWHCY99Qmxp1tpttbFTsu24Kz5YtxBpoV2b0sFgcT6remn44hs

Exciting on the snowmaking front if true it unlocks another 100 guns.

[k2trav]

Saw an M&H logging pickup truck sitting under west mtn lift by the tunnel this morning, then saw it at admin, could be a sign

[SpillwayEast]

Saw an M&H logging pickup truck sitting under west mtn lift by the tunnel this morning, then saw it at admin, could be a sign

The trees next to the stairway going to towards Deli's next to the Hotel were trimmed last Saturday