Saddleback SOLD to Majella

Saddleback SOLD to Majella

Postby tipsdown » Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:17 am

Looking forward to an exciting future at Saddleback!

http://majellagroup.com/saddlebackmaine ... june17.pdf
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Re: Saddleback SOLD to Majella

Postby Glade Monkey » Fri Jun 30, 2017 1:57 pm

The new FG quad is a "Tristar" which is the same as the new KP bottom terminal, but must be going to run slower if its only 1,500/hour versus KP 2,100/hr.

http://sugarloaf.com/Documents/Sugarloaf/Corporate/TRISTAR.050912e.pdf
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Re: Saddleback SOLD to Majella

Postby tipsdown » Fri Jun 30, 2017 2:32 pm

Glade Monkey wrote:The new FG quad is a "Tristar" which is the same as the new KP bottom terminal, but must be going to run slower if its only 1,500/hour versus KP 2,100/hr.

http://sugarloaf.com/Documents/Sugarloaf/Corporate/TRISTAR.050912e.pdf


I know there's been talk of a conveyor load so I'm not sure it will run slower than KP. Would the lower PPH be chair spacing?
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Re: Saddleback SOLD to Majella

Postby Glade Monkey » Sun Jul 09, 2017 6:22 pm

No commitment to opening SB this coming season...must be lots of anxiety in Rangeley despite the (seemingly) positive outcome.

I'm most curious to read how the SMF explains how they spent 50% of the donations, to those expecting a refund. :shock:
"We have approximately $150,000 left of the $300,000 gifted for operating funds that has brought us to this point..."
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Re: Saddleback SOLD to Majella

Postby tipsdown » Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:42 am

Word around town is that barring any major setbacks, this season is a When not If....Except for the key guys in Mountain Ops, they're starting over. There's a ton of work but I know they want to open this season.
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Re: Saddleback SOLD to Majella

Postby salsgang » Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:27 pm

Glade Monkey wrote:No commitment to opening SB this coming season...must be lots of anxiety in Rangeley despite the (seemingly) positive outcome.

I'm most curious to read how the SMF explains how they spent 50% of the donations, to those expecting a refund. :shock:
"We have approximately $150,000 left of the $300,000 gifted for operating funds that has brought us to this point..."


I believe that was a separate fund. Folks could contribute to operating expenses above and beyond their "membership", so I believe the membership funds are all available for refunds. Not sure what they will do with the excess operating funds.
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Re: Saddleback SOLD to Majella

Postby salsgang » Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:28 pm

tipsdown wrote:Word around town is that barring any major setbacks, this season is a When not If....Except for the key guys in Mountain Ops, they're starting over. There's a ton of work but I know they want to open this season.


Would love to see some type of opening this year! Those lifts are key.
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Re: Saddleback SOLD to Majella

Postby SpillwayEast » Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:51 am

Hopefully they can get an announcement out soon about opening this year. It will be a nice economic boost to the area is the ski area is running this winter.
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Re: Saddleback SOLD to Majella

Postby muleski » Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:18 pm

The more the soon-to-be new owners can communicate, and outline a vision, a plan, a timetable, etc. the better. I imagine that seeing much before they actually close on the sale {assuming the deal actually does go through} is not in the cards. Which is fine. Hopefully they are lining it all up.

This will be interesting. I think there is optimism mixed with a good dose of skepticism. If Simon and team do move forward and sink some serious money into the place, at least in the short term, we should see skiing, and a boost to the local economy. The more he decides to spend, and build or improve, the more people he'll put to work. In terms of skier visits to SB, whether it opens on a limited scale this season or not, that, IMO remains to be seen. And it's the big question. But this can't do a thing but help out the region.

No doubt, there is excitement. Much as there was when Bill Berry and family rescued SB, and proceeded to sink a lot of money into it. There are some parallels here. The big difference is that this group is from "far away", where the Berry's live in Farmington.

The friends of mine who are in this business, and particularly those who actually own and buy ski resorts shake their heads at this. No jealousy, etc. at all. They seriously want EVERY ski operation in the country to not just survive, but to thrive. They just see no possible path for that at SB. Maybe it takes some people with zero ski experience, and zero resort experience {at least in North America} to dream and think out of the box and make it happen. That's a tall order.

What both CEO's {these guys like titles} outlined sounds pretty much like the classic "If we build it, they will come." That generally has not worked as of late in this business. I keep hearing about the realities of the location, with an objective view. And the miracle of four seasons is just not a new idea. Rangeley, the lake, and other fishing has always been pristine. How that factors into SB's bottom line has always been a challenge. Not sure how they solve that.

I hope this works, and that they stick with it {and actually have the capital}. I sense some risk getting out over their tips on this. And I hope that the SMF group and concept stays a bit connected, as they may get another chance. Of course if the new owners sink a bundle in to it, and then sadly give up years down the road, there is more "stuff" for a non profit to have to acquire. And it might be more problematic.

The group of people who have impressed me the least, and have been the most difficult for me to deal with over decades of business are second generation CEO's. Often absolutely clueless, yet feeling like they somehow built something. Somedon't work that hard, and specialize in talking a good game. Most have no problem spending money stupidly. I have no clue about this guy, or about the former fire chief, now CEO, who is "excited about this project." I cringed at Simon and the "Premier Resort" comment. I hope I'm being too critical. Again friends of mine who do this for a living, and in some cases have fortunes of money deployed, see this as a big challenge. And I have heard "These guys have NO idea" more than once.


We'll see. Buying the place, and then making it work are two different things. At least SB has a new owner about to come on board, the prospects of getting everything back on line, of skiing and some putting up new lifts, and enthusiasm. I'll celebrate that for now. I think that piling on does no good.

I just want to sneak over from Sugarloaf six or so days a season and enjoy the terrain. Regardless of anything else, the mountain always has been, and always will be, awesome.

Best of luck to all! I will be so excited if this group pulls this off, and has tremendous success.
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Re: Saddleback SOLD to Majella

Postby cat in january » Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:46 pm

I have heard others say there is plenty of time, but we are quickly closing in on midsummer. If they can not get their product out in front of people by the end of summer, I think they will need to discount season passes significantly if they go on sale this Fall.

I too don't see the 4 season attraction that has been built up. If I was buying property for 4 season use I would be buying down on the lake not up on the mountain.

Not much new information in the article, but worth a read if you haven't seen it. Surprised to see a fan gun sitting out in one of the pictures.
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Re: Saddleback SOLD to Majella

Postby loafasaur » Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:10 pm

After 50 years, it's obvious what the market is for skiing at Saddleback, and that market it insufficient for Saddleback to be sustainable based only on winter activities.

The Rangeley area is one of the jewels of Maine. Drop-dead gorgeous. If Majella'a gonna make it, the other 3 seasons, especially summer, will have to bring in significant profits.

There's already one nice golf course in Rangeley. http://www.mingosprings.com/ Mingo Springs is up and running without a cash outlay by Majella. That's a start. The state park has a beach, as does the Village. If people'll swim in the Maine ocean, Rangeley Lake won't seem too cold.

I'm thinking out loud. Maybe a lakeside development and shuttles between lakeside/mountainside/Rangeley Village? Golf course at the foot of the mountain, certainly. Mountain biking for all abilities. Ever see the zip lines at Wildcat? Ziplines down from the top of the Rangeley chair? How about special-interest festivals that people are fanatic enough to drive to Rangeley and stay a couple days? Concerts, especially of the accoustical, intimate variety? Brownfield, Maine ain't exactly Times Square, but Stone Mountain Arts Center seems to be making a go of it in that remote location. http://www.stonemountainartscenter.com/ArtsCenter/event-calendar.html. Foliage bus trips from Boston? A cruise boat to get largish groups out on Rangeley Lake to see how really gorgeous it is? Ahhh...real estate sales--every destination resort's favorite cash source. Point is, Lake Placid is the only other place in the east that has the raw, 4-season assets that Rangeley/Saddleback has. Lake Placid is about 5 hrs. from NYC, which is more than the time to get from Boston to Saddleback. Lake Placid is far from raw, but the Rangeley area is a clean canvas. Rangeley has had starry-eyed dreams before. It would take deep pockets and patience, but the potential is there.
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Re: Saddleback SOLD to Majella

Postby Rossignolsoul7 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:19 pm

cat in january wrote:Surprised to see a fan gun sitting out in one of the pictures.


Was there recently, there are actually quite a lot of fan gun sitting out there. That just shows you how careless previous management was.
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Re: Saddleback SOLD to Majella

Postby Rossignolsoul7 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:28 pm

loafasaur wrote: Point is, Lake Placid is the only other place in the east that has the raw, 4-season assets that Rangeley/Saddleback has.

Tremblant too, and this one is only 1h20min from 4-million-populated-Montreal.
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Re: Saddleback SOLD to Majella

Postby Glade Monkey » Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:26 pm

I'm confused about the $40 million number included in every press release about the Berry's and SB. It always says they spent that much in IMPROVEMENTS (after they bought the place for $7.5 million)

Be generous and say $3 million for the new lodge, another $3 million each for the Kiddie and Kennebago FG quads, plus they bought two new groomers, put in a yurt and cut some new trails and glades. They also built condos, but presumably sold them so that money shouldn't count unless you're just adding up total expenses and not deducting income.

Generously and even INCLUDING the purchase that all might come to a total of $18 million.
So where was the other $22 million? Did they lose $2 million per year operating the mountain?!?
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Re: Saddleback SOLD to Majella

Postby tipsdown » Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:50 pm

loafasaur wrote:After 50 years, it's obvious what the market is for skiing at Saddleback, and that market it insufficient for Saddleback to be sustainable based only on winter activities.

The Rangeley area is one of the jewels of Maine. Drop-dead gorgeous. If Majella'a gonna make it, the other 3 seasons, especially summer, will have to bring in significant profits.

There's already one nice golf course in Rangeley. http://www.mingosprings.com/ Mingo Springs is up and running without a cash outlay by Majella. That's a start. The state park has a beach, as does the Village. If people'll swim in the Maine ocean, Rangeley Lake won't seem too cold.

I'm thinking out loud. Maybe a lakeside development and shuttles between lakeside/mountainside/Rangeley Village? Golf course at the foot of the mountain, certainly. Mountain biking for all abilities. Ever see the zip lines at Wildcat? Ziplines down from the top of the Rangeley chair? How about special-interest festivals that people are fanatic enough to drive to Rangeley and stay a couple days? Concerts, especially of the accoustical, intimate variety? Brownfield, Maine ain't exactly Times Square, but Stone Mountain Arts Center seems to be making a go of it in that remote location. http://www.stonemountainartscenter.com/ArtsCenter/event-calendar.html. Foliage bus trips from Boston? A cruise boat to get largish groups out on Rangeley Lake to see how really gorgeous it is? Ahhh...real estate sales--every destination resort's favorite cash source. Point is, Lake Placid is the only other place in the east that has the raw, 4-season assets that Rangeley/Saddleback has. Lake Placid is about 5 hrs. from NYC, which is more than the time to get from Boston to Saddleback. Lake Placid is far from raw, but the Rangeley area is a clean canvas. Rangeley has had starry-eyed dreams before. It would take deep pockets and patience, but the potential is there.


Skepticism abounds! Why wouldn't it...by the way who's Simon? :wink:

Lofasaur, I think you're on to something here...This is the direction they're going from what I've heard...and that's why I think Muleski and his buddies in the business are a bit off the mark. To start, Muleski is looking at it solely as a business proposition. Anyone that buys Saddleback is likely in it as a passion play. We can all agree that if you have multimillions and you want to put it to work, there are much quicker, safer ways to do that. These guys think differently than you and I. They've got a lot of money...more than they Berry's supposedly, and they may have something to prove and are looking to make their mark. There are likely some egos involved here, which IMO is not necessarily a bad thing.

The owner has already been on record saying he loves the area, and a challenge, and they have the financial horsepower to make it happen. There's your Saddleback prototype..You can see why Saddleback attracts these types..the area is still untapped and it has something, as mentioned, that very few other ski areas have. A true natural 4 seasons setting. There absolutely is an attraction to the area in non-ski seasons. It's just never been monetized by a Saddleback owner because it has yet to be emphasized, and/or the money hasn't been there in the past. If they have the financial resources to pull it off and allegedly they do, I'm fairly certain it can have long term success.

Now to take a (less critical) micro look at the situation. The Berry's were around breakeven when the mountain shut down (with some uncleared debt apparently)...they were finished regardless and didn't want to fund a replacement lift. Despite their lack of business acumen in a tough business (that's 4 hours from Boston with NO HOTEL) they were almost there..the model was not that broken. Because of the abrupt way they exited, I think there's been this misnomer it was a blood bath. They were just done...

By default, Majella will be better business minded folks, no doubt. So that's a good start. And everyone agrees that operating as a day tripper resort in Rangeley is a major problem. A hotel is obviously a must, and 2 lifts alone should get them well on their way.

Normally, these passion projects play out for 10 years or so and someone else will come in and give it a go. I expect no different. But Saddleback seems poised to go to the next level and these buyers sound intent on doing that. In 10 years, Majella will hopefully have it at a point of no return before another big hitter comes in to take a crack at it. It's too nice of a mountain/area to close again.
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Re: Saddleback SOLD to Majella

Postby redrider » Thu Jul 13, 2017 5:45 pm

It is what it is folks, enjoy the next evolution!
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Re: Saddleback SOLD to Majella

Postby muleski » Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:10 pm

True words, Red Rider!

Hope for the best, and plenty of investment in a great ski product!
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Re: Saddleback SOLD to Majella

Postby farmboy » Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:24 pm

Glade Monkey wrote:I'm confused about the $40 million number included in every press release about the Berry's and SB. It always says they spent that much in IMPROVEMENTS (after they bought the place for $7.5 million)

Be generous and say $3 million for the new lodge, another $3 million each for the Kiddie and Kennebago FG quads, plus they bought two new groomers, put in a yurt and cut some new trails and glades. They also built condos, but presumably sold them so that money shouldn't count unless you're just adding up total expenses and not deducting income.

Generously and even INCLUDING the purchase that all might come to a total of $18 million.
So where was the other $22 million? Did they lose $2 million per year operating the mountain?!?


Without Getting into details, a good chunk of that was spent before 2008. The number is accurate
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Re: Saddleback SOLD to Majella

Postby loafasaur » Fri Jul 14, 2017 1:43 pm

My bad, RossiSoul7. How could I forget the resort that always places #1 in the east in the annually-disparaged Ski magazine survey? OTOH, it's only 4 hours from Montreal to SB (and SL). Lake Placid and Tremblant are the "after" stories. Saddleback is "cursed with potential," to borrow the baseball cliche.
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Re: Saddleback SOLD to Majella

Postby farmboy » Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:41 pm

Rossignolsoul7 wrote:
cat in january wrote:Surprised to see a fan gun sitting out in one of the pictures.


Was there recently, there are actually quite a lot of fan gun sitting out there. That just shows you how careless previous management was.



Where do you store your snow guns ? In controlled temperature storage?
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Re: Saddleback SOLD to Majella

Postby cat in january » Sat Jul 15, 2017 11:17 am

heh, sure there was plenty of room on the level of the lodge for such storage.

Was surprised they were left in the weeds, rather than neatly ordered outside Maintenance. You know putting the best foot forward in the presentation of the property for sale.
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Re: Saddleback SOLD to Majella

Postby Nonsuch » Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:23 pm

Yes, Cat in January....great points. I think many of us are concerned about the level of neglected routine maintenance (both resource intensive of $$ and time) that will need to go into the mountain to get the lifts spinning this season. The guns have all been sitting outside in the weather and I suspect little has been done with maintaining all the snow making infrastructure like pipes and pumps etc. In addition, just routine trail maintenance will be a huge task. The trails have not been recently mowed and I suspect there are significant blow downs and erosion issues that will need to be addressed.
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Re: Saddleback SOLD to Majella

Postby Glade Monkey » Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:10 pm

farmboy wrote:
Glade Monkey wrote:I'm confused about the $40 million number included in every press release about the Berry's and SB. It always says they spent that much in IMPROVEMENTS (after they bought the place for $7.5 million)

Be generous and say $3 million for the new lodge, another $3 million each for the Kiddie and Kennebago FG quads, plus they bought two new groomers, put in a yurt and cut some new trails and glades. They also built condos, but presumably sold them so that money shouldn't count unless you're just adding up total expenses and not deducting income.

Generously and even INCLUDING the purchase that all might come to a total of $18 million.
So where was the other $22 million? Did they lose $2 million per year operating the mountain?!?


Without Getting into details, a good chunk of that was spent before 2008. The number is accurate


Thanks for the reply! Wish I knew more of the details because that is a LOT of money which apparently went down a rabbit hole.
Hope you're doing well now that the whole purchase and sale ordeal is over. Your restrained but helpful updates from the inside over the past few years were appreciated.
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Re: Saddleback SOLD to Majella

Postby cat in january » Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:15 am

Thought about this a bit the other day and my best guess is this purchase makes sense in 1 of 2 ways (and tbh not much sense in either)

The property was purchased for a low enough price that Majella thinks they can get things in order and flip it. Like buying the house for sale with the unmowed lawn and the purple paint in the living room, fixing up the cosmetics and then flipping it. There is potential for some growth at SB and clearly summer is where it needs to happen. More plates from away than ever this summer in Maine and they need to go someplace and do something. Key to this is finding an inexpensive (relatively) way to get the new lifts in for the winter side and a 9 hole course with approved plans for another 9. Maybe they have a line on used lifts and think they can get a good deal from the local contractors installing it. Mountain biking, zip lining and frisbee golf are other inexpensive recreational activities that can be added. All this hopefully gets a good bar tab flowing and maybe the mountain is appealing for a bit more than their investment.

Second way is a sentimental purchase by the Monsour's. Saddleback was cheap enough and the value of owning a ski area was enough to offset the losses. Compared to other ski area purchases around the world, this one gave the biggest bang for the buck for the Monsour's.

Wish Saddleback all the best and hope good luck keeps it alive.

Recent and old narrative of Maine's ski mountains is not a sunny one. From Camden Snow Bowl to Evergreen Valley, red is the color of the bottom line. The only hill I could name that seems to have seen success is Hermon. Never understood how the airlines went so many years with losses and don't understand how ski areas have too, other than folks are passionate about skiing http://www.newenglandskihistory.com/Maine/
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Re: Saddleback SOLD to Majella

Postby cat in january » Tue Jul 18, 2017 7:21 pm

I'll add Pleasant Mountain/Shawnee Peak to Hermon as a ski mountain that I have only known success at.
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Re: Saddleback SOLD to Majella

Postby Pow on the Mao » Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:36 pm

Suddenly everybody is Jeff bezos. It's a fucking snow gun. Are you saying you know better than jimmy Quimby?
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Re: Saddleback SOLD to Majella

Postby cat in january » Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:37 am

Have you priced a fan gun? A snow gun sitting in the weeds may not fare worse than one on gravel outside maintenance, but the impression would be very different for me as a buyer.

I am sure Jimmy Quimby knows a lot more about selling commercial real estate than I do, but not sure that encompasses ski infrastructure.

Look its a BB where folks can make comments and have opinions. My initial comment was more of an aside and I flushed out why I was surprised by the fan gun sitting in 2+ years of weed growth in response to Farmer's comment. If I was a buyer, it would have been a flag regarding overall maintenance and how the mountain had been put to bed.

Sure everyone who is a skier is pulling for Majella to make a successful go of it with Saddleback.
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Re: Saddleback SOLD to Majella

Postby redrider » Thu Jul 20, 2017 6:17 pm

Its over (the sale) , rejoice! Don't sweat the fan gun.

Maybe that helped, price reduced due to fan guns in weeds, like a spot of rust on a used car... :idea:
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Re: Saddleback SOLD to Majella

Postby vcskier » Thu Jul 20, 2017 6:43 pm

Is it sold? I heard an August close, which seems like no rush to open this year.

I recently worked on a deal where the day before the closing an issue was found which by one estimate was less than 1% of value. The buyer pulled out and fought and received their deposit back.

I don't wish this on saddleback but it isn't sold yet.
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Re: Saddleback SOLD to Majella

Postby cat in january » Fri Jul 21, 2017 9:26 am

I looked and it does appear the deal has not been closed yet, just agreed to. An August closing does throw shade on winter operations this year.
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